Date: Tue, 14 May 96 14:45:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Engels, foragers, herding, agriculture, classes


 
Lisa writes:  
> 
> But the idea that agriculture started as a way to feed grain to
> cattle, no way!  This is very expensive cattle feed.  The only place
> this has ever been evidenced that I've heard of is in modern
> capitalism, 

What about in the bible ?

And I'm sure I remember some ancient greek saying that the 
Tigris / Euphrates delta was so fertile that they got three
harvests from their fields, the first of which went to grazing
animals ( sheep , I think ).

Anyway, rereading Engels, I think you and he agree - he says 
"large scale agriculture, the *cultivation of fields* becomes
possible only after the development of the iron plowshare and
domesticated cattle to pull them.

And rereading the same section, I think he is also wrong about 
writing, which I would argue first arose as a means of claiming
and counting surplus ( and quite probably also a divine right to 
the surplus ).

About Homeric greece - how can walled cities be the product of
a pre class society ? But then Homer is a snapshot of a developing
oral tradition. It probably has many societies reflected in it.

Also, the class societies of South America don't seem to be have
significant numbers of domesticated grazing animals ( Engels says
the only possibility was the Llama - ? ).


Adam.

Adam Rose
SWP
Manchester
UK


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