Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:15:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: M-G: ERROR: (Conf)using term "Stalinism/ist/ists" again


On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Dave Bedggood wrote:

> > Date:          Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
> > From:          Bruce Burleson <anvil-AT-tiac.net>
> > To:            marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> > Subject:       Re: M-G: ERROR: (Conf)using term "Stalinism/ist/ists" again
> > Reply-to:      marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>EVERYONE IS A CENTRIST BUT YOU AND BRUCE?  HMMM.  INTERESTING.  I MEAN I
CAN RECOGNIZE THAT THESE LESTS ARE OVER INFLATED, AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO
WITH WORLD POLITICS.  THIS LIST IS JUST FUN FOR IT'S POLEMICS, AND IT CAN
BE A LEARNING EXPERIENCE BECAUSE YOU DO GET MANY DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND
YOU CAN SEE THE PYSCHOLOGY OF VARIOUS TRENDS, I FOR ONE DO PARTAKE IN REAL
REVOLUTIONARY POLITICS, AND DON'T LIKE TO BE REFERED TO, EVEN INDIRECTLY
AS A CENTRIST, BUT ANYWAY, WHO REALLY CARES WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL EVERYONE
ELSE.  JUST AS LONG AS I KNOW WHAT I AM, AND WHAT I BELIEVE IN, I'M HAPPY.


ROB



 > Sorry
Bruce, > I actually thought you were taking the piss in your suicide 
> note. Which is why I didnt elaborate. So I'll be patronising instead.
> If your serious, then maybe you should take a break from these
> terribly ingrown navel gazing over inflated spoons lists and get 
> involved in some real world  politics. M-I is much worse than M-G.
> 
> As Hugh has just reminded us, they are no substitute for the real world
> and obviously a danger to your health. But they are just not capable 
> of driving anybody to suicide. Throwing tantrums, fleeing  in a fit, 
> obsessing, yes, but suicide no. The sort of political shit that is thrown 
> at workers on these lists would get you a thick ear of a bloody nose
> in any serious working class organisation.
> 
> I thought you were going to check out some ex USEC  groups. You 
> could also look into us, and Bob, and Hugh, and Rob for a start. You 
> might be surprised how much Trotskyists agree on. For one, we usually 
> agree on what Marxism is, what socialism is, which Cuba is not, and what a 
> degenerated workers state is which most of us think Cuba still is. Some of 
> us think that capitalism has been restored in Russia and China, others not. 
> Most of us call one another centrists, but at least we agree that centrism
> means talking revolution but not practicing  revolution.  Its just that
> everyone's centrist except you and me, and as for you...
> Don't give up until youve checked out the lot.
> Dave.
> > 
> > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Dave Bedggood wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Wrong, wrong, wrong, both wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong  and very wrong.
> > 
> > 
> > Oh yeah?  Where am I wrong?  If the level of "unity" on these spoons
> > lists is an indicator of what we can expect to be the future of 
> > the Left, we are in deep, deep trouble.
> > 
> > Bruce B.
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Rob was correct.  Marxism itself these days is fucked up.  No one can
> > > > seem to agree on what is socialism, for instance, because everyone
> > > > has a different opinion on what "socialism" is.  Cuba is in my opinion
> > > > socialist, but the Cliffites argue that it is state capitalism.
> > > > 
> > > > We are doomed.  We'll never agree on anything.  There is no hope for the
> > > > world, if that hope lies in us.  We should all just commit suicide,
> > > > and get it over with.
> > > > 
> > > > Bruce B.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Dave Bedggood
> > > 
> > > 
> > >      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> > 
> 
> Dave Bedggood
> 
> 
>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> 



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