Subject: Re: M-G: family
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:58:31 +1100 (EST)


> 
> >> 
> >> Are you saying that 19th century capitalism in America meant freedom? For 
> >> who the Indians, the slaves, or was it a period of capitalist accumelation 
> >> and expansion. Well maybe you think you can put on your cowboy hat or dress 
> >> like General Custer who got scalped at Little Big Horn in Poland today! But 
> >> you are in fact defending a period which basically was one of the most 
> >> horror filled and blackest periods in American history culminating in 
> >> America charging up San Quan Hill as and imperialist power. I mean if you 
> >> had picked at the previous century of the American revolution I could 
> >> perhaps understand you.. 
> >
> >I can't quote chapter and verse, but I do remember Marx or Engels saying 
> >something to the effect that there are two ways of viewing history. It 
> >can be viewed either as a catalog of human folly or as a process of human 
> >development. The former is metaphysics while the latter is historical 
> >materialism. 
> >
> >No doubt history is not totally linear, there are temporary regressions. 
> >However, one thing we can be sure of, modern industrial capitalism is a 
> >definite advance on previous societies.
> >
> >Our beastliness is certainly no worse than in days of old and in many 
> >ways we are less barbarous. The mongol hordes committed genocide 
> >whereever they went - their pastoral mode of production had not need of a 
> >subject population, they just wanted clear land. The favorite sport of 
> >Vikings was impaling children on spears. In the past it was normal to 
> >invade your neighbour and dispossess them of their land. If they did not 
> >flee in time, they were either killed or enslaved.
> >
> >When people return to such barbarism, as in Hitlerite Germany or present 
> >day Bosnia and Rawanda, there is a general revulsion. 
> >
> OK David I can buy a bit of the above! Capitalism did get rid of feudal 
> society and peasant economies and this was a step forward. But Slavery was 
> certainly dispicable and by the time of the charge up San Quan hill America 
> was and imperialist power in its own right. Thus what you say does not fit.

American capitalism abolished slavery after a protracted war with the 
slave owners. 

I am not as familiar with American history as I should be. What was San 
Quan Hill? A search on Britannica CD-ROM comes up blank.

> 
> And you are wrong to compare what is going on today with the rise of 
> capitalist imperialist relations! In fact it is not a regression to 
> something but proof that the system is bankrupt when it has to use 
> nationalism and fascist solutions to solve the crisis of "over-production" 
> and a new redivision of the spoils. They are two entirely different things.
> 
At the moment international capitalism is making relatively little use of 
nationalism and fascism. These are now mainly used by Third World 
dictatorships,  who also tend to brand their enemies as 'agents of 
imperialism'. For example, most of the Middle East and Black Africa, 
Cuba, China, Indonesia and Vietnam. 


> Bob Malecki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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