Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:29:14 -0800


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.




  Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe


  

   John Foster <borealis-AT-mercuryspeed.com> wrote:



  You mean from a Heideggerian perspective? Well it is due to 'inauthenticity' inherent in the lack of circumspection regarding the 'they' and the 'public' or everydayness. I watched a recent documentary about parent's attempt to prevent his son from joining US forces fighting in Iraq. Once you a man volunteers and becomes a private, it is difficult to get out of the service.

  Ah, the ol' "inauthenticity inherent in the lack of circumspection" argument.  Errrrr...I guess I don't know exactly what you're getting at here.  Are you saying there is a power assigning subjectivity in bad faith?  Clue me in.

Well! My interpretation of authenticity is derived from BT. I have not read the whole work for over 15 years so I am 'rusty' on the terminology. However I have reread portions of BT and have come to view that authenticity is being referred to by Heidegger as - in his words- the subjects 'ownmost' situations, ie., (these situations belong on to me: moods, states of mind which individuate) there is a Kierkegaardian emphasis here on what is a 'subject' in the sense of 'anxiety' 'dread' and other 'felt' moods or states of mind. In anxiety there is an 'authentic' relationship about the self, or disclosure for the self. In fact Heidegger writes that 'anxiety individualizes', makes the individual real. Where there is no acute anxiety there is no self- as felt (simply an id). In the realm of everyday irrationality, or public life, the self is not felt so acutely. For instance 'idle talk' is a feature of everydayness (this theme is specifically part of BT and somewhat so in The History of the Concept of Time - which I have read recently). For Heidegger if he had been an American/Canadian writing today he would have referred to the 'shopping diversion' which many people engage in, a sort of 'inauthenticity of libidinous' engagement with new shiny objects. Even 'political talk' would fall within the subject of everyday engagement and discourse, since there is little time to really engage in 'positive research'. But I detract a bit.

Anyway the threat that has progressed recently on this list has been about 'authenticity' and what is 'anxiety' at least it's existential-ontological interpretation. And in that nexus of 'subject' felt experience (even Anthony has alluded to this phenomenon) is something 'transcendental' for the subject. Why does 'anxiety' appear'? This question requires an ontological-existential interpretation whereas 'anxiety for the child' does not require a 'ontologico-existential' interpretation except as a 'supporting' subjective phenomenon. The 'ontico-existentiell' characterization is essential to the discussion of the phenomenon (anxiety is a universal subjective phenomenon because it is felt as ontic 'dread', as 'ontologico' indefiniteness, the absolutely 'uncertainty of existence in the face of a catastrophic risk' (I might add as an ecologist). There is a section in BT that specifically assigns the ultimate importance on this point, ie., that only the subject whose authentic dread individuates can understand what dread, or the 'uncanny' is 'interpretatively'. That means that the ontological interpretation, the question concerning Being, can only be 'authenticated' by those persons who know (rather than have knowledge) what it is to have this 'state of mind' called dread. Dread is not an objective phenomenon, no overt behaviour observed in another indicates anxiety nor dread, unless it is first 'felt' in the inquiring subject; hence the importance of the sympathetic imagination (cf. Kants, 3rd faculty of understanding -which is largely unexplored in modern philosophy except precursorily in Sartre and in Bradly). Certainly Suzanne K. Langer elaborates extensively on this 3rd capacity, but she does not do this except through her Cassir-esque analysis, and she does not analyze this feature of human understanding in any 'existential-ontologico' fashion. Or does she?

This is why I have related issues and factors which impact on 'US foreign Policy' since it is actually pertinent and necessary for this list. Certainly if one were to reread Kiergekaards "Works of Love" at this moment in time, and if all Xtians would read the first 10 pages, then it would be obvious what I am referring to. There is nothing 'positive' in my recommendation since it is 'ontological work' of the heart, and hearth.

I have been listening to the Blues since I was only 10. I first listened to Josh White over and over again. I visited the deep south, places like Memphis perhaps before most on this list were out of diapers. I saw the poverty and the repression of African Americans, and I felt their pain through their music. I remember when J. F Kennedy was killed. We were all sent home and we all grieved here in my small town in British Columbia, Canada. But our feelings about the US government, and its involvement in imperial wars for power and prestige later afte Kent State were different. I have read and looked closely at the student year books showing the difference in the US student population there before and after the Kent State massacre. This document is the most amazing document in the history of the US because it is a graphic depiction of the incredible brutality of a regime, a mindset, a bias against the individual and their sovereignty. There is nothing in US history more graphic....that is why the 'war movement' became a world wide movement to safeguard individual rights. Yes I know that there are all these conventions, et cetera, which safeguard rights, but something else must safeguard rights. It has to be. There has to be something like a modern crucifix which the young must regard as 'emblematic' in intent and meaning.

that is why



john foster















    Whereas, if a person is an ordinary employee of a company, a student enrolled into college, then it is easy to just quit.

  John, I really don't think that's the case.  The analogy is even ill-fitting--the armed forces clothe, feed, and house recruits; it's a commitment one makes and understands.  Also, we don't have a draft. 

  JS




  !-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------!

   "...even if he recopied them later, as I suspect he sometimes did, he marked his card or cards not with the date of his final adjustments, but with that of his Corrected Draft or first Fair Copy. I mean, he preserved the date of actual creation rather than that of second or third thoughts. There is a very loud amusement park right in front of my present lodgings."





-----
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Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe

 John Foster <borealis-AT-mercuryspeed.com> wrote:

 

 

You mean from a Heideggerian perspective? Well it is due to 'inauthenticity' inherent in the lack of circumspection regarding the 'they' and the 'public' or everydayness. I watched a recent documentary about parent's attempt to prevent his son from joining US forces fighting in Iraq. Once you a man volunteers and becomes a private, it is difficult to get out of the service.

Ah, the ol' "inauthenticity inherent in the lack of circumspection" argument.  Errrrr...I guess I don't know exactly what you're getting at here.  Are you saying there is a power assigning subjectivity in bad faith?  Clue me in.

Well! My interpretation of authenticity is derived from BT. I have not read the whole work for over 15 years so I am 'rusty' on the terminology. However I have reread portions of BT and have come to view that authenticity is being referred to by Heidegger as - in his words- the subjects 'ownmost' situations, ie., (these situations belong on to me: moods, states of mind which individuate) there is a Kierkegaardian emphasis here on what is a 'subject' in the sense of 'anxiety' 'dread' and other 'felt' moods or states of mind. In anxiety there is an 'authentic' relationship about the self, or disclosure for the self. In fact Heidegger writes that 'anxiety individualizes', makes the individual real. Where there is no acute anxiety there is no self- as felt (simply an id). In the realm of everyday irrationality, or public life, the self is not felt so acutely. For instance 'idle talk' is a feature of everydayness (this theme is specifically part of BT and somewhat so in The History of the Concept of Time - which I have read recently). For Heidegger if he had been an American/Canadian writing today he would have referred to the 'shopping diversion' which many people engage in, a sort of 'inauthenticity of libidinous' engagement with new shiny objects. Even 'political talk' would fall within the subject of everyday engagement and discourse, since there is little time to really engage in 'positive research'. But I detract a bit.

Anyway the threat that has progressed recently on this list has been about 'authenticity' and what is 'anxiety' at least it's existential-ontological interpretation. And in that nexus of 'subject' felt experience (even Anthony has alluded to this phenomenon) is something 'transcendental' for the subject. Why does 'anxiety' appear'? This question requires an ontological-existential interpretation whereas 'anxiety for the child' does not require a 'ontologico-existential' interpretation except as a 'supporting' subjective phenomenon. The 'ontico-existentiell' characterization is essential to the discussion of the phenomenon (anxiety is a universal subjective phenomenon because it is felt as ontic 'dread', as 'ontologico' indefiniteness, the absolutely 'uncertainty of existence in the face of a catastrophic risk' (I might add as an ecologist). There is a section in BT that specifically assigns the ultimate importance on this point, ie., that only the subject whose authentic dread individuates can understand what dread, or the 'uncanny' is 'interpretatively'. That means that the ontological interpretation, the question concerning Being, can only be 'authenticated' by those persons who know (rather than have knowledge) what it is to have this 'state of mind' called dread. Dread is not an objective phenomenon, no overt behaviour observed in another indicates anxiety nor dread, unless it is first 'felt' in the inquiring subject; hence the importance of the sympathetic imagination (cf. Kants, 3rd faculty of understanding -which is largely unexplored in modern philosophy except precursorily in Sartre and in Bradly). Certainly Suzanne K. Langer elaborates extensively on this 3rd capacity, but she does not do this except through her Cassir-esque analysis, and she does not analyze this feature of human understanding in any 'existential-ontologico' fashion. Or does she?

This is why I have related issues and factors which impact on 'US foreign Policy' since it is actually pertinent and necessary for this list. Certainly if one were to reread Kiergekaards "Works of Love" at this moment in time, and if all Xtians would read the first 10 pages, then it would be obvious what I am referring to. There is nothing 'positive' in my recommendation since it is 'ontological work' of the heart, and hearth.

I have been listening to the Blues since I was only 10. I first listened to Josh White over and over again. I visited the deep south, places like Memphis perhaps before most on this list were out of diapers. I saw the poverty and the repression of African Americans, and I felt their pain through their music. I remember when J. F Kennedy was killed. We were all sent home and we all grieved here in my small town in British Columbia, Canada. But our feelings about the US government, and its involvement in imperial wars for power and prestige later afte Kent State were different. I have read and looked closely at the student year books showing the difference in the US student population there before and after the Kent State massacre. This document is the most amazing document in the history of the US because it is a graphic depiction of the incredible brutality of a regime, a mindset, a bias against the individual and their sovereignty. There is nothing in US history more graphic....that is why the 'war movement' became a world wide movement to safeguard individual rights. Yes I know that there are all these conventions, et cetera, which safeguard rights, but something else must safeguard rights. It has to be. There has to be something like a modern crucifix which the young must regard as 'emblematic' in intent and meaning.

that is why

john foster

 

 

Whereas, if a person is an ordinary employee of a company, a student enrolled into college, then it is easy to just quit.

John, I really don't think that's the case.  The analogy is even ill-fitting--the armed forces clothe, feed, and house recruits; it's a commitment one makes and understands.  Also, we don't have a draft. 

JS

!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------!

 "...even if he recopied them later, as I suspect he sometimes did, he marked his card or cards not with the date of his final adjustments, but with that of his Corrected Draft or first Fair Copy. I mean, he preserved the date of actual creation rather than that of second or third thoughts. There is a very loud amusement park right in front of my present lodgings."

---

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