Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:51:37 -0800


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  Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe


  

   John Foster <borealis-AT-mercuryspeed.com> wrote:

    Bob wrote:

    the technology of this current war is stunning. right or
    wrong, it's rome
    and its engineering versus the celts and their bravery.

    John here,

    The problem is that the US is not fighting ancient celts. It
    is fighting people who are driven to protect their own lands
    from vicious invaders (many of whom are teenagers away from
    home for the first time).

  John, please pardon the 100-email backlog, but why do you keep emphasizing the fact that many of the U.S. forces are young?

You mean from a Heideggerian perspective? Well it is due to 'inauthenticity' inherent in the lack of circumspection regarding the 'they' and the 'public' or everydayness. I watched a recent documentary about parent's attempt to prevent his son from joining US forces fighting in Iraq. Once you a man volunteers and becomes a private, it is difficult to get out of the service.

Whereas, if a person is an ordinary employee of a company, a student enrolled into college, then it is easy to just quit. Not when you are a conscript is it easy to quit. There are over 70,000 US Vietnam Draft Dodges here in Canada. Dick Cheney and G. W. Bush are also draft dodgers. Whether you sign up or whether drafted, once in it is really difficult to get out quickly especially if it is intolerable.

Here is what US and their Allies do in Afghanistan:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deadtaliban.jpg

Where is this guys pants?

















   I don't understand how this exempts them from fulfilling their purpose as soldiers--as professional soldiers (to amplify Bob's suggestive mention of Rome)--or how this provides some moral perspective on the matter.  You have to remember that the U.S. armed forces are as much a social program as a defense program; I've had a number of conversations with Army buddies re: Army-as-welfare.  The armed forces provide professional training and educational support, so it should come as no surprise that many of the individuals are not of an advanced age (though why a 17-yr-old in battle is more disturbing than a 30-yr-old father of two is beyond me). 

  Also, I'm not sure how many of the Iraqi people are, in fact, "defending" their land.  This statement--which I certainly understand--seems tailor-made to a certain Western ideological background that might not apply here--"people," "defense," and "land" might be terms mitigated by perspective.  Then again, they might not.  Said and Spivak have been flogging this horse for years, I don't presume to speak for subaltern studies; but then, I don't presume to speak for the so-called "subaltern," either.  In either case, the reaction of some Iraqis and some American Iraqi expat communities has, and will continue to be, instructive.

  JS  





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Subject: Re: Shock'N'Awe

 John Foster <borealis-AT-mercuryspeed.com> wrote:

Bob wrote:

the technology of this current war is stunning. right or
wrong, it's rome
and its engineering versus the celts and their bravery.

John here,

The problem is that the US is not fighting ancient celts. It
is fighting people who are driven to protect their own lands
from vicious invaders (many of whom are teenagers away from
home for the first time).

John, please pardon the 100-email backlog, but why do you keep emphasizing the fact that many of the U.S. forces are young? 

You mean from a Heideggerian perspective? Well it is due to 'inauthenticity' inherent in the lack of circumspection regarding the 'they' and the 'public' or everydayness. I watched a recent documentary about parent's attempt to prevent his son from joining US forces fighting in Iraq. Once you a man volunteers and becomes a private, it is difficult to get out of the service.

Whereas, if a person is an ordinary employee of a company, a student enrolled into college, then it is easy to just quit. Not when you are a conscript is it easy to quit. There are over 70,000 US Vietnam Draft Dodges here in Canada. Dick Cheney and G. W. Bush are also draft dodgers. Whether you sign up or whether drafted, once in it is really difficult to get out quickly especially if it is intolerable.

Here is what US and their Allies do in Afghanistan:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deadtaliban.jpg

Where is this guys pants?

 

 

 

 

 

 I don't understand how this exempts them from fulfilling their purpose as soldiers--as professional soldiers (to amplify Bob's suggestive mention of Rome)--or how this provides some moral perspective on the matter.  You have to remember that the U.S. armed forces are as much a social program as a defense program; I've had a number of conversations with Army buddies re: Army-as-welfare.  The armed forces provide professional training and educational support, so it should come as no surprise that many of the individuals are not of an advanced age (though why a 17-yr-old in battle is more disturbing than a 30-yr-old father of two is beyond me). 

Also, I'm not sure how many of the Iraqi people are, in fact, "defending" their land.  This statement--which I certainly understand--seems tailor-made to a certain Western ideological background that might not apply here--"people," "defense," and "land" might be terms mitigated by perspective.  Then again, they might not.  Said and Spivak have been flogging this horse for years, I don't presume to speak for subaltern studies; but then, I don't presume to speak for the so-called "subaltern," either.  In either case, the reaction of some Iraqis and some American Iraqi expat communities has, and will continue to be, instructive.

JS  

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