Subject: Re: WtP and justice
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 04:22:52 +0000


John Foster wrote:

> >Then maybe this is better: There is no ontical structure
>which is
>UN->caring (even plunder must be a kind of care). There is
>no ontical
> >encounter with anOther which is not mitsein. There is no
>ontical
> >encounter with beings which is not already being-alongside.
>
>Well if that is the case, then plundering is ethical, just
>as ethical as not plundering.

No, you are once again confusing the ontic with the ontological by confusing 
Heideggerian care with ETHICAL care. Heideggerian care simply means 
involvement or dealing with equipment in general. To deal with things 
ethically is only ONE kind of dealing (according to Heidegger, but not 
according to Levinas).

>This kind of statement really
>has nothing to do with any of Heidegger's writings are
>thoughts.

Um, have you even read Being and Time, especially the part where he 
explicitly states that fundamental ontology is ethics neutral in the sense 
that it provides the groundwork for any possible ethics? I will get the 
citation for you when I get home in a few days if you like.

>The real difference though is in what is cared
>for - the self or the self of others? A lack of care  thus
>would be a lack of care for the self, or another, but the
>care (as active concern - Heidegger) is still operative.

And you accuse me of saying things that has nothing to do with any of 
Heidegger's writings and thoughts? Care is involved in EVERY encounter with 
ALL beings, not just ourselves and Others. When I am hammering, care 
pervades my very dealing with equipment. Your notion of care above is 
blatantly limited, and is very reflective of the misinterpretation of 
Heidegger by most Deep Ecologists.

>"There is no ontical structure which is 'un-caring' (even
>plunder must be a kind of care)." [A. Crifasi]
>
>This kind of 'nihilistic' statement does not really state
>anything. Since the quality of care and plunder are
>'equivalent terms' - but in essence are different. If they
>are the same, then why are their 2 terms for different
>qualities?

Because there are 2 meanings of care: the ontic kind, which CAN be opposed 
to plundering (i.e., in common usage, a plunderer is an uncaring person); 
and the ontological kind, which is the condition for the very possibility of 
any being-in-the-world whatsoever (both plundering and non-plundering), 
because it is simply dealing, and any possible being-in-the-world is a 
dealing. You are confusing one meaning with the other, as do almost ALL Deep 
Ecologists.

>"There is no ontical encounter with beings which is not
>already being-alongside." [A. Crifasi]
>
>This statement presupposes that there are specific 'ontical'
>encounters with beings. I think what this means is referred
>to in Being and Time wherein a discussion of 'world' and
>'environment' is presented. "Being-in" as in 'being in the
>world' involves being present alongside or beside someother
>entities. There cannot be a simple environment or world
>where there only 2 entities side by side.

Again, you have a limited understanding of what this means. Heidegger 
contrasts being-alongside with being-inside, as in being inside a container 
(the universe), which is the traditional metaphysical view of how we are in 
the world. The latter view gave way to idealism and subjectivism, all the 
way up to Husserl, who denied that the transcendental ego is AT FIRST 
apodictically certain that it is in a real world at all. So in contrast to 
this, Heidegger says that we are ALREADY in the world from the start, even 
before Dasein is objectified and split as subject from object, leading to 
the denial of the object. So before we are in a position to deny the 
existence of beings, we are already alongside beings. That is what Heidegger 
means, not merely that there must be more than 2 entities. It is not a 
limitation to 2 entities that he is worried about, but rather the limitation 
to ONE entity (i.e., ourselves) at the start, which is what Husserl did.

Anthony Crifasi

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