Subject: Re: the o/o gulf
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:48:58 -0800



Subject: Re: the o/o gulf


John Foster wrote:

>The distinction re ontical and ontological
>is largely 'interpretative' (hermuetic). The interrogation
>of being (questioning) is the beginning of an ontological
>understanding. Versus an 'acceptance' of what is
>'there'....which is not a questioning. Hence the importance
>of the indivisibility of the ontical and the
>'pre-ontological'.

Anthony wrote:
How in the world do your two middle sentences serve in any
way to support
your first and last sentences? Questioning is the beginning
of ontological
understanding, versus and acceptance of what is
there...therefore the ontic
and ontological are indivisible???? This is almost as
mysterious as your
argument that the 9/11 hijackers were not Saudis or
fundamentalist Muslims
because they became US citizens and enrolled in Christian
universities in
the US.

John here,

You missed the point. The pre-ontological is fused with the
ontical. If you re-read your Being and Time, and also The
History of the Concept of Time, then you will understand
what is meant. The ontological is a form of interrogation
about what is presented in phenomenon. It would really help
if you could actually provide a definition of what you mean
by ontic and clarify how you are applying this concept in
your analysis. Hiedegger has provided several examples of
what is ontical. For instance spirituality of the subject is
an example of the ontical since this phenomenon is a
relation, ie., the subject is thus 'different' due to
culture, society, geography, family, in essence
'circumstance' and 'attitude'. Hiedegger also attempts to
clarify the existence of a modern 'dasein' and primitive
'dasein' as a matter of ontological importance. The
activities which are described as 'ontological' or
'modifications of being' are such activities
(being-in-the-world) as 'discussing' et cetera. Discussing
is not an ontical form of 'relating' but rather an
ontological modification. It is universal for the human
species to discuss.

Now the ontical is not something which is 'counterfeit' nor
'inauthentic' (except in a relational sense) as such but
rather similar to the 'garment' of culture, sexuality, and
so on. The ontical may be expressed in  'demeanour' and by
'attitudes'. For instance your attitude about 'right' and
'wrong' vis a vis the Iraq and so on, reflects your
spiritual, mental and intellectual 'subjective' beliefs.
Attitude is essentially a form of 'propositional thought'
and furthermore all 'inferential wisdom' therefore is
'ontical'. The specific contents of critical thinking are
ontical; however the ontological or metaphysical definition
of ethical actions require both the emotive and the
critical. For example the specific 'virus' which is the
target of an ethical act, say polio in the world is the
'ontical' content, the subject, of an ethical action to
remove a pathogen from the human population. The ontological
content of the ethical therefore is to 'remove suffering'
and 'disease', to eliminate anxiety. (Anxiety unlike you
have stated always takes on the form of
'being-in-the-world', or ontically, this polio virus in the
world. This does not mean that the ontical is superfluous
nor inessential but rather that these contents are
reflective of 'being-in-the-world' or 'situation' which is
highly dependent on the subject using convention, custom,
and ritual. The ontical presentation of  sexuality is
dependent on culture, and the individual. For example men in
some cultures are responsible for taking care of young
children, knitting clothes, et cetera. The ontical
presentation of 'self' in everyday life is a 'dependent'
variable and is of no real value in the phenomenological
ontology of human existence, the existential. The 'sexual
garment' we all wear begins early, at the time of conception
(boys have XY and girls have XX chromosomes - and there are
variants of these to) due to genetics, and later due to
culture, society, individual preference.

Heidegger clarifies too what is meant by the
'being-in-the-world' as an indivisible complex. Rather than
'being-in' in the sense of a realm of concentric and larger
domains of worlds or spheres, he states that 'being-in'
means 'being-along-side' entities. Entiities are both
material things as well as conceptual forms
(idea-image-concepts).

It should be restated how the central idea of the
distinction between the ontological and the ontical is
developed by Hiedegger. The key word in my opinion he uses
is 'essence'. "The revelatory essence of being is truth."
Essence has the meaning in the Aristotlean sense in that
entities have 'intrinsic' qualities which are 'primary' and
this sense refers to what cannot be 'out stripped' from them
due to the quality being in other dissimilar entities. This
useage of the term essence thus leaves out what is
'instrumental' in value and quality. For instance the
quality of being 'red' is found in many entities; however
anxiety is not a quality which can be intrinsic to inanimate
entities lacking life and sentience. Thus anxiety, but not
it's causes, is a modification of being, the ontological and
intrinsic quality of human dasein (other animals may also
experience anxiety). Phenomenology starts with a revelation,
a presence, a truth. Phenomenology starts with pure being.

"Pure being, the true immediacy, is...a sense certainty
which in each case exemplifies. The "I" too is in each case
exemplified just as the this, each case exemplifies. The "I"
too is in each case exemplified just as the this, which as
the character of being a this....the this as object and a
this as I....Both are differentiated, and both constitute a
difference which has to be addressed as a 'principal
difference'. [Hegels Phenomenology of Spirit]

Sense certainty is the richest and truest cognition.:"it is
'so rich that its fullness has no end - a richness without
end....The dimensions of its extension are space and time."

However a distinction needs to be made regarding time, the
temporal. Time has two essential definitions: as Kronos, and
as Kairological. The later definition is what the sentient
subject senses in each movement, in each 'exhibit' which
'appears' immediately. Thus kronos is mediated time, a
measure taken in relation, externally, and has little direct
connection with subjective, kariological time (cyclicity,
eternal return, of feeling, mood, et cetera). Kronos is
linear time, whereas care (kairos, caritas) is a primary
intuition which is feeling of the mind (not the
psychological form of feelings). Kronos is not an
intermediary form of knowing, but rather a mediated form of
recognition, essentially an inferential form of measure
(mensura). Karios, ousia, and other modifications of the
temporal (internal sense immediacy) are intermediaries of
emotion and sense certainty, the primary relational sense
(principle difference between I and object-in-a-field).

So what is your definition of the 'ontical'?

john










>When we venture to discuss the ontological structure of
war,
>then we need to assess the principles of a 'just war'
versus
>an 'unjust war'.

Huh? For Heidegger, the "ontological structure" of anything
has nothing to
do with being "just" or "unjust". That includes wars and
Dasein. Both "just"
and "unjust" are possible ways of being-in-the-world, and
therefore cannot
be decided by a fundamental ontology of ANY and EVERY
being-in-the-world.
How many times will it take for you to understand this?

>One ontological structure or 'meaning' here is that
>collectively there is a lot of 'deception' or 'failure to
>disclose' which has been exposed by experts around the
>world.

John, go back to Deep Ecology and give up on Heidegger,
because you are
showing a rabid refusal to correct repeated elementary
undergraduate-level
misinterpretations. You just keep blindly characterizing as
ontological your
blatantly ontic use of terms such as "disclosure" and
"deception," not to
mention your similar treatment in past posts of mitsein and
anxiety.
Normally I wouldn't recommend Deep Ecology to anyone, but
for you, at least
it will keep you busy.

Anthony Crifasi

____________________________________________________________
_____
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



     --- from list heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---




     --- from list heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---