Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:09:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HAB:] Re: Strategic Action


Fred> ...so if you have the  reference where he
collapses this distinction, I would like to know,
right  now!

G: Fred, I didn't claim that JH collapses the
distinction. I claimed that strategical action can't
be equated with manipulative or instrumentalist
action.


--- FREDWELFARE-AT-aol.com wrote:

>  
>  
> In a message dated 8/14/2004 12:36:50 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,  
> coherings-AT-yahoo.com writes:
> 
> Habermas  has become clearer about the fact that
> strategical action involves  communicative action
> within "teleological" (goal-oriented) action,  and
> communicative action always takes place within a
> teleological  backdrop. Acting with others within
> strategical action is usually not  manipulative, as
> organizational interaction is common defined  by
> long-range projects and plans. Acting toward others
> manipulatively,  i.e., regarding others as
> *elements*
> in systemic plans, is just that:  manipulative,
> instrumentalist action. There's nothing  especially
> strategical about it, in the planful sense of
> 'strategic'.  Habermas earlier failed to distinguish
> the planful and instrumentalist  senses of
> strategic. 
> 
> 
> 
> In On the Pragmatics of Communication, p118,
> Habermas states unequivocally  
> that instrumental action is nonsocial action
> oriented towards success.   This 
> entire book spells out the definitions and gives
> numerous examples of the  
> basic difference between strategtic action and
> communicative action.  On  p300, he 
> states, "Thus, communicative action distinguishes
> itself from strategic  
> action through the fact that successful action
> coordination canot be traced back  
> to the purposive rationality of action orientations
> but to the rationally  
> motivating force of achieving understanding."  This
> theme runs through out  OPC, 
> I can find no deviation from it.  Gary, I personally
> own every book  and 
> journal article published by or about Habermas, so
> if you have the  reference where 
> he collapses this distinction, I would like to know,
> right  now!
>  
> Fred Welfare
> 
> 
> 
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