Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:42:27 +1100
Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Proletariatization of the "professional" fields...


Ah... Class-in-itself and class-for-itself. Well, in this age of Anthony
Giddens and Demos and the Holy Empire of NGOs, a new category - that of the
class-despite-itself.

This would be the bin in which to throw all those people who are utterly
convinced they have not joined the ruling class - not those cases where
ideology is just lagging a little bit on upwards mobility, but those where a
total web of self-deceit has been spun so as to hide any hint of class
membership or even the existence of an 'up' to move towards, or a 'down' to
come from or return.

In other words, a class of people whose power derives from denying the
existence of classes.

Thiago


On 2/2/02 8:59 PM, "Peter Jovanovic" <peterzoran-AT-hotmail.com> wrote:

> hi all
> 
> commie00 wrote:
>> in my estimation, this has been going on since the 40s so that now the bulk
>>> of doctors are merely employees of hospitals, lawyers merely employees of
>>> firms, etc.
> 
> i know a whole bunch of law students and recently graduated lawyers. the
> ones who get good grades at law school usually join one of the big
> commercial law firms. they work pretty hard there for their high salaries -
> 60hrs/week if not more is common. however if they are reasonably competent
> they can expect to make partner within 15 years. not many other workers get
> the chance to buy an appreciable chunk of the business after 15 years
> service.
> 
> some lawyers might be proletarians but most of them are mediators between
> capital and labour or between different capitalist interests. that to me
> makes them middle class in a similar way to cops.
> 
> or given your disbelief in the existence of the middle class perhaps it
> could be said that lawyers and cops are part of the class-in-itself but are
> unlikely to become part of the class-for-itself.
> 
> peter
> 
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