Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:35:33 -0500
Subject: Re: cincinatti riots (fwd)


>On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, thoucynic wrote:

>> "F. Leon Wilson" wrote:

>> > What is happening in Cincinnati this is a RACE riot.
>> >
>> > It should not be refereed to in any other manner than a RACE riot.

Well, first off, F. Leon, old toad, is you are doing nothing yourself,
other than throwing rocks at thoucynic, you aren't providing a bit of
support for you criticisms.  You are saying that thougcynic's viewpoint is
screwed up, but you aren't saying why you think that.  Is this merely
intellectual laziness on your part, or are you genuinely unacquainted with
the facts?

>> Being at Ground Zero here....
>>
>> Yeah, that's a pretty significant component of what's going on, not
>> entirely but there is a significant racial component.
>
>Then you need to look deeper into the minds and hearts of these people if
>you only see race as a "component of what's going on."

Why?

>> It simplifies a lot of what is going on.
>>
>It doesn't simplicity what is going on; it is what is going on.

Shallow.  What "is" goin on?  Not with race-relations in general, but in
Cincinatti specifically.

>> There was a lot of simply "lets fuck shit up and take some loot"
>> business floating around that had nothing to do with politics or race,
>> pure thuggery.
>
>Then you are looking at this from an extremely narrow and short side view.

No.  That statement (of thoucynic's) is clear and unambiguous.  And true.
It is you, on the contrary, who are taking the narrow and short-sideds
view.  You are angry, and you doubtless have plenty of reason to be angry.
Nonethheless, your anger doens't change the reality of things.   You are so
focused on the injustice that prevails in our society to see that not
*every* problem you face is related to that injustice.

This shortsightedness will, in the long run, do you much more harm than the
actual injustice itself.

For one thing, you are destroying your own credibility, without
credibility, it's going to be very hard to find someone who will even
listen to you, much less, take you seriously.

>> Many Black owned or operated businesses have been trashed than
>> businesses owned by White non locals. Locally owned and operated
>> businesses that were tight with the community.  (Though the main
>> street dot com and bar yuppie corridor was thoroughly trashed) almost
>> ALL of the property damage excepting the afore mentioned race street
>> business and a few other businesses was meted out in neighborhoods
>> inhabited by blacks, a lot of the overt violence was directed at
>> Blacks, neighborhoods trashed were by and large Black or in Norwood
>> poor whites.  A few local community businesses were spared (including
>> one really popular Fish place) but really there were a lot of
>> innocents fucked over on the first few days.  After that everyone
>> locked up early and put plywood over exposed windows so the property
>> damage bit sort of died sown.  Racial rage was a real component in the
>> protests but a lot of the property damage had nothing to do with that.
>>
>
>The fact that many will only focus on the so-called Black owned or
>operated businesses that have been trashed is shortsighted only
>underscores the depths mis-education still looming in the very streets we
>war in.  We must achieve a full understanding of our style of fighting,
>and the courage necessary to defy the occupation forces by showing no fear
>of material sacrifice.

Fine.  Now take a moment and explain what you mean by your assertion that
pointing out that some dogs are shitting in their own yards underscores
miseducation, and explain what you mean by miseducation in the first place.

And you might also give us a clue as to what you mean by "our style of
fighting."  And F. Leon, old kumquat, just how much of this "fighting" have
you actually been engaged in?

>The white operated businesses had long declared economic warfare against
>these Black people by long ago withdrawing (sanctions) vital goods and
>services.

That's a legitimate point.  However, by wandering out here, waving your
arms around and criticizing others without offering explanation of your
criticisms, makes you look naive and not worthy of serious consideration.
Your message gets lost and ignored as a consequence.

>> A lot of the property owners and political elements in Cincinnati have
>> been planning on running an "urban renewal" campaign through Over the
>> Rhine, lots of property bought up in a low volume way, slowly
>> rennovated, tennants sent packing, and trendy businesses brought in
>> (mostly around main street).  Fiber optic cable and telecom
>> infrastructure laid in, streets that were formally one way converted
>> to two way to route a lot of downtown traffic through certain
>> neighbourhoods, splitting them in half effectivly and making the
>> property in these coridors more valuable (due to exposure).  After
>> these riots this process will continue on an accelerated basis.
>> Local efforts have tried to stop this, buying and rennovating property
>> with community money and putting them to community uses or leasing
>> them to business startups and recycling the rent/lease money back into
>> community ventures.  These people have been besieged by developer
>> interests, they have only a couple of voices in the city council.
>> who knows what will happen now.

>Then this is where the next phase of the battle lies.  This is a
>continuous war.  A war fought with successive battles with zoning,
>building and renovating property within the Black community.  The things
>you sight are only battles within one aspect of the war. We must all be
>resolved and surmount each and every difficulty by staying strong in the
>struggle and battle on the multiply fronts that exist.

That's a lot of words that sound intelligent but actually say exactly
squat.  Generalities, however high-sounding, remain generalities.  I, yer
kindly ol' Unka Bart, personallyagree.  But how are we going to resolve and
surmount each and every difficulty by staying strong in the struggle and
battle on the multiple fronts that exist.  Specifically?  What are these
difficulties, and how do we "stay strong?"

And what are these "multiple fronts?"

>> Its sobering, I was actually smack in the middle of Over the Rhine at
>> the time of the shootings, heard the shots, I thought that it was some
>> gangbangers at the time... now I know better, pretty sobering now in
>> retrospect.
>>
>
>What is sobering is 15 Black Males Killed During Arrests Since 1995
><http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7216,00.html>

What is amazing is that you seem unable to differentiate between genuinely
questionable (and probably racially-motivated killings by the police, and
those deaths which were simply the inevitabel result of the deceased's
clear intent to purify the black gene pool.  Let's examine these deaths
that you quoted:

>Since 1995, 15 black males have died while being arrested by Cincinnati
>police or in police custody.
>
>1. Harvey Price, 34, was shot Feb. 1, 1995, while lunging at officers with
>a knife after killing his girlfriend's 15-year-old daughter. Officers
>exonerated.

Ol' Harve sounds like a scum that needed killing, his race is not a factor.
He killed a 15-year old girl, that'd be grounds enough for me to shoot him
if the cops didn't.  Then he comitted a fatally stupid act, he lunged at a
cop with a knife.  Rule number one of gunfighting is "Bring a gun."

Rule number one of yer kindly ol' Unka Bart's guide to street survival is
do not give an armed man any shit unless you have the drop on him ( and
here, refer back to rule number one of gunfighting).  Any attack,
especially an attack by a person armed with anything capable of killing the
intended recipient of said attack, gives the recipient of the attack the
right to defend her life with whatever means she deems necessary.  Cops
have guns.  It ain't bright to attack them with any form of weapon,
including rocks.  In fact, it's usually a non-habitforming, if not
terminally stupid, mistake.

Bad example, weakens your case.  This is not a racial thing.

>2. Darryl Price, 42, died April 4, 1996, after striking his head while
>resisting arrest. Officers actions upheld.

This, on the other hand, is a good example to support your case.  One for
you, one for Darwin.

>3. Lorenzo Collins, 25, shot Feb. 23, 1997, after threatening police
>officers with a brick. Office of Municipal Investigation determined the
>officers should not be disciplined.

Lorenzo forgot rule number one of gunfighting.  Also rule number one of
Unka Bart's street survival guide.

One for you, two for Darwin.

>4. Daniel Williams, 41, wounded a police officer, then was fatally shot
>Feb. 2, 1998. Officer exonerated.

He wounded a cop.  Then you get surprised that the cops shot him.  You are
alone, brother, in your surprise.  This is another that has nothing to do
with race and everything to do with terminal stupidity.

One for you, three for Darwin.

>5. Jermaine Lowe, 21, shot at police officers who returned fire, killing
>him June 3, 1998. Officers cleared.

Do I really have to critique this one?  Shoot at cops, die.  Usually the
outcome, white, black or green.

One for you, four for Darwin.

>6. Randy Black, 23, shot July 17, 1998, while threatening officer with a
>nail-studded board. Officer cleared.

Are you beginning to see the problem here, F (You don't mind if I call you
F, do you?), ol' rutabaga?  Threaten an armed man with a weapon capable of
killing or seriously maiming him, and you'd better be also observing rule
number one of gunfighting, or have you will current and up-to-date.  This
is widely known as "suicide by cop."  It does not involve race.

One for you, five for Darwin.

>7. Michael Carpenter, 30, shot March 19, 1999, following a traffic stop.
>After several investigations, Justice Department decides not to file
>federal charges.

This is another good one for you, it supports your stance.  But you have
shot yourself (and unnecessarily so) by including all those darwinian
examples along with the valid one.

Two for you, Five for Darwin.

>8. James King, 44, shot Aug. 20, 1999, after robbing a bank and pointing a
>gun at officers. Officers exonerated.

Two for you, Six for Darwin.

>9. Carey Tompkins, 28, shot Oct. 16, 1999, when an officer saw him pull a
>gun. Officers exonerated.

Two for you, Seven for Darwin.

>10. Alfred Pope, 23, shot March 14, 2000, after allegedly robbing and
>shooting at a group of men. Officers cleared.

Two for you, Eight for Darwin.

>11. Courtney Mathis, 12, shot Sept. 1, 2000, while illegally driving a
>relative's car. The officer who tried to stop Mathis was dragged 800 feet
>and died. Investigations continuing.

Now stop for a moment and ask yourself, would the outcome of this have been
different if the kid driving the car and killing the cop, had been white?
If you think the answer is yes, then you *are* naive.

Two for you, Nine for Darwin.

>12. Roger Owensby Jr., 29, died of asphyxiation while resisting arrest
>Nov. 7, 2000; investigation continuing.

Three for you, Nine for Darwin.

>13. Jeffrey Irons, 30, shot Nov. 8, 2000, after robbing a grocery store
>and grabbing an officer's gun. Investigation continuing.

Three for you, Ten for Darwin.

>14. Adam Wheeler, 21, killed Jan. 31, 2001, in a shootout during a drug
>investigation. Investigations pending.

"Killed in a shootout," eh...?

Three for you, Eleven for Darwin.

>15. Timothy Thomas, 19, shot April 7, 2001, after fleeing officers who
>were trying to arrest him on 14 warrants, mostly traffic charges.
>Investigations pending.

Four for you, Eleven for Darwin.

>Deathly force in the hands of an occupation force is what is sobering . . .

No, people who, fully aware that they are facing an armed opponent and not
themselves *adequately* armed or prepared to face the consequences of their
actions, still attack the armed opponent.  THAT is what is sobering.
Equally so that the outcome of such attacks is a surprise to anyone.  Even
more so is that anyone would propose the outcome as an example of racism.
Rather these are clear examples of suicide by cop.

>> In reality the riots are a lot smaller and more localized than the media
>> is portraying around the country, and Internationally (I've had emails
>> from around the world asking me if I was safe).  Many of the protests
>> have been peaceful with a bit of rioting by a few individuals, most of
>> the protests and riots have been confined to Avondale, Eveston, and Over
>> The Rhine, with some stuff going on in the city of Norwood.  The curfews
>> going on have been mostly regarded, there are not a whole lot of people
>> going out, period.  The first night 125 people were arrested, since then
>> things were calmer.
>>
>
>This sounds as if you are apologizing by giving reason and support to the
>propagandized media whitewashing of the true state of this race war.

No, it sounds more like you are unable to accept that reality differs from
your cherished prejudices.  No sweat, that happens to white folks too.

>Pray for war and the blessings of victory.

Go get yourself a taste of war before you wish it upon others, kiddo.

>F. Leon

Yer Kindly ol' Unka Bart.