Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:32:59 +0000
From: "steve.devos" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.com>
Subject: Re: more on cyborgs and the inhuman




Glen

To extend the Bateson references - have a look at references to Bateson 
in the work of  Deleuze and Guattari (where his life story read like a 
modernist tradgedy) not dissimliar to Leo Szilard's life in some 
aspects. Batesons most interesting book is Steps to and Ecology of 
Mind... He invented the neo-behavorist theory of the Double-Bind theory 
one of the founding moments of the anti-psychiatric movement. I won't 
say much more than that he was mostl a systems thinker, cyberneticist 
and is well thought of  by the proponents of the humanistic wing of the 
cyborg movement...

But for me the introductory moment was and remains in Anti-Oedipus... 
and as such he remains deeply tragic...

Szilard was the man who enabled the Atomic bomb to work - in a mythical 
fashion he thought the method up in the bath in London...

regards
steve

fuller wrote:

>Hugh,
>
>Who is Bateson?
>
>Eric,
>
>Are you introducing a notion of complexity to understanding and, therefore,
>meaning?
>Hmm, like a singular axiom, as brought about by a truth-becoming-process,
>has many component parts that has meanings (and simulacras) beyond the mere
>simulacra(s) of the axiom itself (in Badiou speak).
>
>I liked the axe man feedback story. However, where does intuition take part
>though in the production of meaning? Eg the axe man intuits the different
>processes of chopping down the tree, and then for the conservation of time,
>effort (and perhaps brain cells), he simply communicates it as "I chopped
>down that tree."
>
>Also the axe man may be using any misunderstanding of the communication of
>'tree chopping' as a determinate of Otherness. Does this person I am
>communicating with intuit the same meaning and therefore have the same (or
>at least similar) understanding of the process of chopping down a tree?
>
>Intuition... oooh scary.
>
>Cheers,
>Glen.
>
>PS Is everyong having a good Chrissy period? Is it really cold where anyone
>is? Here it is a rather nice 28 degrees (cent.) plus; relaxing beach
>weather.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hbone" <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
>To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:35 PM
>Subject: Re: more on cyborgs and the inhuman
>
>
>>Eric,
>>
>>Bateson could have enumerated all the atomic particles of all the atoms of
>>all the molecules in all the proteins in all the cells of the axman.
>>
>After
>
>>the fact, such totality and inevitability
>>seems to confirm pure fatalism..  Even God cannot change the past.  Those
>>
>ax
>
>>strokes seem to have little effect on the social fate that threatens
>>Occidentals and Orientals alike.  If your boat sank you could remember
>>Bateson, take nap while your body swam ashore.
>>
>>Olsen is right too,  Its a poetic thought.   Of course, the whole earth
>>takes care of the feather, and all the other feathers, and societies,
>>
>often
>
>>badly.
>>
>>Its the old question of who are we and what can we do about it, and why
>>
>does
>
>>it matter?
>>
>>best,
>>Hugh
>>
>
>

HTML VERSION:

Hugh,

Who is Bateson?

Eric,

Are you introducing a notion of complexity to understanding and, therefore,
meaning?
Hmm, like a singular axiom, as brought about by a truth-becoming-process,
has many component parts that has meanings (and simulacras) beyond the mere
simulacra(s) of the axiom itself (in Badiou speak).

I liked the axe man feedback story. However, where does intuition take part
though in the production of meaning? Eg the axe man intuits the different
processes of chopping down the tree, and then for the conservation of time,
effort (and perhaps brain cells), he simply communicates it as "I chopped
down that tree."

Also the axe man may be using any misunderstanding of the communication of
'tree chopping' as a determinate of Otherness. Does this person I am
communicating with intuit the same meaning and therefore have the same (or
at least similar) understanding of the process of chopp
ing down a tree?

Intuition... oooh scary.

Cheers,
Glen.

PS Is everyong having a good Chrissy period? Is it really cold where anyone
is? Here it is a rather nice 28 degrees (cent.) plus; relaxing beach
weather.

----- Original Message -----
From: "hbone" <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: more on cyborgs and the inhuman

Eric,

Bateson could have enumerated all the atomic particles of all the atoms of
all the molecules in all the proteins in all the cells of the axman.

After

the fact, such totality and inevitability
seems to confirm pure fatalism..  Even God cannot change the past.  Those

ax

strokes seem to have little effect on the social fate that threatens
Occidentals and Orientals alike.  If your boat sank you could remember
Bateson, take nap while your body swam ashore.

Olsen is right too,  Its a poetic thought.   Of course, the whole earth
takes care of the feather, and all the other feathers, and societies,

often

badly.

Its the old question of who are we and what can we do about it, and why

does

it matter?

best,
Hugh